OWNER DJ RaMiN (E420)

[gsxr]

Just curious... why do you want the fogs in the headlights to come on with the high beams? This will put more light immediately in front of the car, which might actually reduce long-range visibility (which is what you typically want with high beams).

The AMG bumpers normally come with auxiliary high beams that would be wired to come on with the main high beams, and you'd leave the standard fogs alone. The AMG bumpers do not come with "fog lights", unless you have a Gen2 bumper and bought the matching fogs (from a C36) separately, but that would only make sense if you had E500E headlights.

Fog lights = low, wide, flat beam pattern
Auxiliary high beams = narrow, focused, long-range pencil-beam pattern

 

[DJ RaMiN]

Just curious... why do you want the fogs in the headlights to come on with the high beams? This will put more light immediately in front of the car, which might actually reduce long-range visibility (which is what you typically want with high beams).

The AMG bumpers normally come with auxiliary high beams that would be wired to come on with the main high beams, and you'd leave the standard fogs alone. The AMG bumpers do not come with "fog lights", unless you have a Gen2 bumper and bought the matching fogs (from a C36) separately, but that would only make sense if you had E500E headlights.

Fog lights = low, wide, flat beam pattern
Auxiliary high beams = narrow, focused, long-range pencil-beam pattern

Honestly, I still haven't decided what to do, just checking out different options and asking what do you guys think. How do you suggest I wire the bumper fogs? I suggested the above option for two reasons. One, I don't want too much light in the front and two, I don't use high beams that much.

Of course easiest option would be to hook up the bumper fogs to headlight fogs, but like I said, that will be too much for me. I want one set of fogs, not two sets.

Connecting the headlight fogs to main high beam works for me, because I don't use the high beams that much. Plus, I could adjust the beam on the headlight fogs too, right?

At the same time, I could just disconnect the headlight fogs and not use them at all.

 

[gsxr]

Backing up a bit... do you have a Gen 1 or Gen 2 bumper, and what part number bumper lights do you have?

 

[DJ RaMiN]

Backing up a bit... do you have a Gen 1 or Gen 2 bumper, and what part number bumper lights do you have?

Gen 1 bumper. My plan is to get HWA2018200156 fogs. If not Bosch Pilot lights.

 

[DJ RaMiN]

I know like you said, Gen1 bumper lights are auxiliary high beams, but I want to wire them like Gen2.

HWA2018200156 is used as aux high beam, so maybe I just go with aftermarket options.

 

[gsxr]

Beating a dead horse here... HWA-201-820-01-56 are auxiliary high beams. NOT fog lights. Just because lights are located in the bumper doesn't mean they are "fogs". The beam pattern between these two are polar opposites. Gen2 has the same thing, the Gen2 AMG lights are also auxiliary high beams. The factory wiring has these turn on with the high beams so you get 4 total high beams.

Either way, you generally do not want any lamp with a fog beam pattern to turn on with the main high beams. The fogs should always be separate and controlled by pulling out on the rotary knob.

Sounds like you have some decisions to make about what lamps to purchase and how to wire them... depending on your intended usage and lighting needs where you live.

 

[DJ RaMiN]

Beating a dead horse here... HWA-201-820-01-56 are auxiliary high beams. NOT fog lights. Just because lights are located in the bumper doesn't mean they are "fogs". The beam pattern between these two are polar opposites. Gen2 has the same thing, the Gen2 AMG lights are also auxiliary high beams. The factory wiring has these turn on with the high beams so you get 4 total high beams.

Either way, you generally do not want any lamp with a fog beam pattern to turn on with the main high beams. The fogs should always be separate and controlled by pulling out on the rotary knob.

Sounds like you have some decisions to make about what lamps to purchase and how to wire them... depending on your intended usage and lighting needs where you live.

Thank you, Dave! Sorry for the confusion. I got really busy running a party yesterday and read your responses quickly and got things mixed up! This is really informative, I kinda thought AMGs had fogs in bumper like E500Es.

Now this makes it even harder for me! So if I go with my original plan. I would have to buy E500 headlights or if possible modify my own (reflector and buy E500 lens). And get a set of bumper lights that are meant to be used as fogs. I think Bosch makes some fogs, same size as AMG gen1 aux high beams. Maybe Hella too, I'll have to do some research.

At the end, more importantly, does switching wires around and adding more lights, stress anything in the electrical system?

 

[DJ RaMiN]

Hey guys!

I did a bunch of stuff to the car! I'll post photos and details later.

So one of those things was a new exhaust! I got a fließen rear muffler from Jc. When the shop took the factory muffler out, I told them to turn the car on to see how loud it was without it and the car wasn't loud at all. Like nothing changed. So I went ahead and told them to take the resonator out and fabricate a custom Y pipe. When the resonator was out, we decided to test the car again. To my surprise the sound didn't change much! The technician was surprised too!

Next would have been to remove the cats, but decided against that because of running to smog issues and stuff here in CA. So they just did a custom Y pipe and the rear muffler. I did some research before and knew that factory cats are restrictive on these cars. So these cars won't get that loud easily.

When the car was done at the shop, I tried revving it harder a few times on the freeway, so I can hear the exhaust better. Then when I got home I did some revving in park. Next day, I started noticing the car doesn't want to go higher than 4000 rpm, in park/natural and while driving. Like I kickdown and while it does go to lower gear, it just slowly crawls up to 4000 rpm and it just hangs there. If I let go of the pedal slightly, it would upshift.

I started researching and most people with the same symptoms had clogged cats! I never thought of it, because the car always passed smog easily with good numbers. So I hooked up my code reader and had some codes, then cleared them. None of them came back after almost 2 weeks. They were probably old codes that were never cleared. I never used the code reader on this car, so they were probably from before my ownership.

The car runs very smooth and if I drive it like a grandma, I wouldn't even notice this issue. Anyways, ever since I bought this car, I always knew something was not right. The gas mileage has been bad and it's not as powerful as it should be. I mean compared to my wife's 500SL, this car is really slow. I was like they're not that much different, so why is this car so slow?

So I came up to the conclusion that maybe the cats are clogged! I decided to do the easy test that was suggested here for the cats. Removed the crossover pipe and took it for a test drive!

I just went on the freeway nearby and floored it! Man, this thing is loud! Anyways the car got so much power and no more hanging at 4000 RPM! Rpm goes to near 5500 and shifts beautifully. I had to take the next exit and circle back home! Didn't want to get a ticket!

Ok! I believe the cats are indeed clogged! This car has only 99k on it, too early for the cats to go bad, but who knows what was going on with it before. These cars do suffer from caps and rotors issues, very common. I'm thinking that the previous owner neglected the fix and that contributed to the cats problem now?

Anyways, what do you guys suggest I do? I do live in CA and will need new cats. What are my options?

 

[gsxr]

D'oh. Your test / diagnosis method was correct, and it does indeed sound like you have clogged cats. Root cause is tough to determine if you don't have full service history, or if the problem didn't begin during your ownership. Most 034/036 cats last the lifetime of the car if the engine is running correctly (no ignition issues dumping fuel into the cats) or abnormal oil consumption (dumping oil into the cats).

Living in CA your options are limited. You'll need to get CARB-approved aftermarket cats and have them welded in. Make sure they will support your displacement / power levels. This will make the exhaust louder... I suspect the reason your car was so quiet with only the cats is because they are partially plugged!

 

[DJ RaMiN]

D'oh. Your test / diagnosis method was correct, and it does indeed sound like you have clogged cats. Root cause is tough to determine if you don't have full service history, or if the problem didn't begin during your ownership. Most 034/036 cats last the lifetime of the car if the engine is running correctly (no ignition issues dumping fuel into the cats) or abnormal oil consumption (dumping oil into the cats).

Living in CA your options are limited. You'll need to get CARB-approved aftermarket cats and have them welded in. Make sure they will support your displacement / power levels. This will make the exhaust louder... I suspect the reason your car was so quiet with only the cats is because they are partially plugged!

Yeah, gotta go by the CA rules of course. So OE cats are no longer available, right? I mean remanufactured ones that MB sold.

 

[Jlaa]

Yeah, gotta go by the CA rules of course. So OE cats are no longer available, right? I mean remanufactured ones that MB sold.

Correct. OE cats are NLA. These work. CARB EO D193-150. https://ww2.arb.ca.gov/sites/default/files/aftermarket/devices/eo/d-193-150.pdf. Both @Russell R Coe and @kegmankipp use this catalyst. I have this catalyst too, but have not yet installed it.

 

[DJ RaMiN]

Correct. OE cats are NLA. These work. CARB EO D193-150. https://ww2.arb.ca.gov/sites/default/files/aftermarket/devices/eo/d-193-150.pdf. Both @Russell R Coe and @kegmankipp use this catalyst. I have this catalyst too, but have not yet installed it.

Yes, I believe those will be my only option. I wonder how those would look installed, because the factory pipes leading to cats have these metal covers on them. It will probably look pretty ugly with those cats welded in, huh?

 

[gsxr]

Yes, I believe those will be my only option. I wonder how those would look installed, because the factory pipes leading to cats have these metal covers on them. It will probably look pretty ugly with those cats welded in, huh?

It won't look nearly as nice as the factory cats. Unfortunately, the only way to buy factory cats is to buy a parts car, or buy another 400E and swap the cat pipe. Then hope the used factory cats are good.

On the bright side, nobody sees this so even if the aftermarket cats don't look great, it doesn't matter!

 

[TerryA]

@DJ RaMiN,
@szvook has some HiFlow CATs that work that he says are costly but apparently pass CA Smog.

 

[DJ RaMiN]

It won't look nearly as nice as the factory cats. Unfortunately, the only way to buy factory cats is to buy a parts car, or buy another 400E and swap the cat pipe. Then hope the used factory cats are good.

On the bright side, nobody sees this so even if the aftermarket cats don't look great, it doesn't matter!

Yes, going with used ones is risky! I'll just go with the ugly aftermarket option.

 

[DJ RaMiN]

@DJ RaMiN,
@szvook has some HiFlow CATs that work that he says are costly but apparently pass CA Smog.

Nice! Would like to hear more about that!

 

[TerryA]

Nice! Would like to hear more about that!

@DJ RaMiN,
DM @szvook, I’m sure he will talk to you about them.

 

[szvook]

@DJ RaMiN The cats I’m using are from HJS in Germany. They are 200 cell cats, with the shell and substrate made from metal. They are a bit on a pricy side, with two cats costing $1400.00 back in 2016. But I’m not sure I would recommend them for anyone living in California for a few reasons. First, they are not approved for street use in California although they comply and meet USA EPA standards for approval. But California is a whole different animal. If you go to get a smog test and the cats are looked at physically, to make sure they are on a list of approved cats, they will not show up on the list regulated by California law. I happen to know a few smog testing places that will not look at the cats physically, but most places nowadays are required to physically look at the cats and confirm the serial numbers on the cats. Second, these cats barely passed the smog test and it took a few attempts. I had to get the cats warmed up and run the smog test right away. So I’m not sure if I would want to recommend them outright and then having anyone ending up with different results than mine. I was willing to take a chance with these cats, but that’s just me. As far as the way the cats look, they look the same as the MagnaFlow cats, but are shorter and wider, and this is how they look installed. But these cats are the best cats that money can buy and are made of high quality to withstand any abuse from cars with lots of power.

 

[DJ RaMiN]

@DJ RaMiN The cats I’m using are from HJS in Germany. They are 200 cell cats, with the shell and substrate made from metal. They are a bit on a pricy side, with two cats costing $1400.00 back in 2016. But I’m not sure I would recommend them for anyone living in California for a few reasons. First, they are not approved for street use in California although they comply and meet USA EPA standards for approval. But California is a whole different animal. If you go to get a smog test and the cats are looked at physically, to make sure they are on a list of approved cats, they will not show up on the list regulated by California law. I happen to know a few smog testing places that will not look at the cats physically, but most places nowadays are required to physically look at the cats and confirm the serial numbers on the cats. Second, these cats barely passed the smog test and it took a few attempts. I had to get the cats warmed up and run the smog test right away. So I’m not sure if I would want to recommend them outright and then having anyone ending up with different results than mine. I was willing to take a chance with these cats, but that’s just me. As far as the way the cats look, they look the same as the MagnaFlow cats, but are shorter and wider, and this is how they look installed. But these cats are the best cats that money can buy and are made of high quality to withstand any abuse from cars with lots of power.

Great, thank you for the thorough details! I'll just go with CARB certified ones. I think Walker is also another option along with Magnaflow.

 

[DJ RaMiN]

Well, well, well...

 

[TerryA]

@DJ RaMiN,
Wow! What happened to those CATs? The CATs should last the life of the car. Glen’s
“Hi-Miler had 675K miles and still passes CA Smog.

They really look trashed! Maybe the wrong fuel, wrong fuel mixture or damaged by an impact.

 

[DJ RaMiN]

@DJ RaMiN,
Wow! What happened to those CATs? The CATs should last the life of the car. Glen’s
“Hi-Miler had 675K miles and still passes CA Smog.

They really look trashed! Maybe the wrong fuel, wrong fuel mixture or damaged by an impact.

I have no idea what really happened to this car! As I mentioned before, the car always passed CA smog too, with good numbers!

Also noticed the broken pieces of the material inside cats were only on the engine side. The rear sides are ok and not broken.

One weird thing I noticed about this car a few months back, was that it had more power during turns. Now I have a theory that maybe these broken pieces were moved to sides during turns and made the flow easier?

 

[szvook]

@DJ RaMiN You might want to consider getting cats with a metallic substrate vs. a ceramic substrate. Magnaflow does have a cat with a metallic substrate, but it’s not for your E420. Do you know if Walker cats have a metallic substrate?

These guys offer cats with a metallic substrate and they are CARB compliant. They are not too expensive 1994 Mercedes-Benz E420 and here is a review of their cats Emissions Testing from 2016. But I can’t find the cell count for their cats.

 

[DJ RaMiN]

@DJ RaMiN You might want to consider getting cats with a metallic substrate vs. a ceramic substrate. Magnaflow does have a cat with a metallic substrate, but it’s not for your E420. Do you know if Walker cats have a metallic substrate?

These guys offer cats with a metallic substrate and they are CARB compliant. They are not too expensive 1994 Mercedes-Benz E420 and here is a review of their cats Emissions Testing from 2016. But I can’t find the cell count for their cats.

I believe Walker is ceramic. Wish I knew about this sooner. I already bought and installed walkers.

 

[szvook]

Give the Walker cats a shot, maybe they will last a while. If for some reason they do not last and it’s due to the ceramic substrate deteriorating, get cats with a metallic substrate. The metallic substrates should be brazed/welded to the shell (my HJS cats metallic substrates are brazed in the center of the shell and welded at the ends to the shell) for better durability, resistance to thermal shock, can handle higher temperatures compared to the ceramic substrates and will not have a telescoping affect under heavy load.

 

[DJ RaMiN]

Give the Walker cats a shot, maybe they will last a while. If for some reason they do not last and it’s due to the ceramic substrate deteriorating, get cats with a metallic substrate. The metallic substrates should be brazed/welded to the shell (my HJS cats metallic substrates are brazed in the center of the shell and welded at the ends to the shell) for better durability, resistance to thermal shock, can handle higher temperatures compared to the ceramic substrates and will not have a telescoping affect under heavy load.

Yeah, I'll give Walker cats a shot. They do come with five years or 50,000 miles warranty, just like magnaflow. Hopefully they last a while.

Lastly, I thought cats with metallic substrate are supposed to be more expensive than ceramic ones. The price of the ones you linked are not bad at all! And their website mentions that they do come with a limited lifetime warranty!

 

[szvook]

The cats with metallic substrates are more expensive, but the price will depend if the substrates will have single, double or triple winding/three winding centers. Single winding centers will be the least expensive option and three winding centers will be more expensive. My HJS HD cats have three winding centers.

The type of metal used on the shell of the cats will also play into the overall price, as well as the type of washcoat being used. Higher end cats usually use platinum along with palladium and rhodium in the washcoat, and that’s what my HJS cats use.

If you want to consider the cats with the metallic substrates from ACAT, get in touch with them first and find more about their cats. That’s what I did with HJS. The main difference I can see between ACAT and HJS, is HJS has been involved in professional motor sports for a while and their cats have been used on supercars as OEM cats in Europe.

 

[DJ RaMiN]

The cats with metallic substrates are more expensive, but the price will depend if the substrates will have single, double or triple winding/three winding centers. Single winding centers will be the least expensive option and three winding centers will be more expensive. My HJS HD cats have three winding centers.

The type of metal used on the shell of the cats will also play into the overall price, as well as the type of washcoat being used. Higher end cats usually use platinum along with palladium and rhodium in the washcoat, and that’s what my HJS cats use.

If you want to consider the cats with the metallic substrates from ACAT, get in touch with them first and find more about their cats. That’s what I did with HJS. The main difference I can see between ACAT and HJS, is HJS has been involved in professional motor sports for a while and their cats have been used on supercars as OEM cats in Europe.

Thank you so much for these helpful information! I will definitely contact them and ask for more details!

 

[gsxr]

@xfadmin - why does @DJ RaMiN show only 1 post in their profile, along with "New Member"?

 

[DJ RaMiN]

Hey guys!

Happy holidays to you all! Hope everyone is having a wonderful time with their family. So I finally found some time to post some photos of the stuff I have done to the E420 in the past few months.

Update 1:
Installed AMG style body kit (front bumper, side skirts and rear bumper).



Removed chrome bumper trim strips from old stock bumpers and added them to the new bumpers. Of course some modifications were needed, had to drill holes to mount them to the new bumpers.

As for the bumper fogs, wired them to the headlight fog lights for now.

 

[DJ RaMiN]

@xfadmin - why does @DJ RaMiN show only 1 post in their profile, along with "New Member"?



View attachment 203832

Oh, I just noticed that! Thanks for pointing it out!

 

[DJ RaMiN]

Update 2:

Installed fließen rear muffler with a custom Y pipe which replaced the factory resonator.





Also kept the old muffler and resonator. Not sure if I ever need them again. I guess, I just like to hoard.

 

[gsxr]

The the old muffler and resonator are NLA... hang on to those if you have space to store them.

 

[DJ RaMiN]

The the old muffler and resonator are NLA... hang on to those if you have space to store them.

Oh I will! I figured they might be!

 

[DJ RaMiN]

Next update:

I forgot to take more pictures for this one.

Replaced shocks and struts with Bilstein B8s. Also got new front strut mounts. For front struts had to make the middle mounting holes larger to fit M14 bolts.





I wanted to lower the fronts 1" and rears 1 1/4".
So measured the spring lengths and cut 1/2" of the length of fronts (about 3/8 of a coil) and 5/8" of the rears (about 5/8 of a coil).
Used #1 (8mm) spring pads for both front and rear.



Here are some shots from each side, I feel like the rear needs a bit more cutting, maybe?

 

[gsxr]

Looks about perfect.

What is the ride height, measured from wheel center to fender lip? The rear will vary ~1/2" between full tank and empty tank.

 

[DJ RaMiN]

Looks about perfect.

What is the ride height, measured from wheel center to fender lip? The rear will vary ~1/2" between full tank and empty tank.

Thank you!

Ride height is:

FL: 13 3/4"
FR: 13 3/4"
RR: 14 1/4"
RL: 14 1/4"

Tank is about half full.

 

[gsxr]

Front height is perfect. I wouldn't go any lower for street use.

I'd leave the rear alone, but that's just me. With a full tank of fuel it may be around 14.0" which is about where you want it. I'd drive it as-is for a bit and see what you think. If you did lower the rear any more, I would only drop it 1/4" at most.

BTW - what springs are those? They look new, but don't appear to be OE...

 

[DJ RaMiN]

Front height is perfect. I wouldn't go any lower for street use.

I'd leave the rear alone, but that's just me. With a full tank of fuel it may be around 14.0" which is about where you want it. I'd drive it as-is for a bit and see what you think. If you did lower the rear any more, I would only drop it 1/4" at most.

BTW - what springs are those? They look new, but don't appear to be OE...

Yeah, I'll just leave it as is for now.

Those are my good old factory/OE springs. I just cleaned and degreased them really well before putting them back on. And of course I painted the cut end to avoid rust issues later on.

Here are the part numbers of the springs.

Fronts:
124-321-39-04

Rears:
124-324-21-04

 

[gsxr]

Ohhhhh! Interesting... your E420 also had the weird, tall #21 rear springs that our 1994 E420 had. This caused the rear end to sit very high, it looked stupid. I swapped them out with the "normal" #12 400E/E420 rear spring. Cutting them is another good solution. I always wondered why some 034's had these #21 rear springs. Was it a manufacturing error over a few months? Or did MB do that on purpose for a while... supply shortage perhaps? Our 1995 E420 has the normal rear springs.

 

[DJ RaMiN]

Ohhhhh! Interesting... your E420 also had the weird, tall #21 rear springs that our 1994 E420 had. This caused the rear end to sit very high, it looked stupid. I swapped them out with the "normal" #12 400E/E420 rear spring. Cutting them is another good solution. I always wondered why some 034's had these #21 rear springs. Was it a manufacturing error over a few months? Or did MB do that on purpose for a while... supply shortage perhaps? Our 1995 E420 has the normal rear springs.

Yeah! I hated how the rear of my E420 was sitting higher, compared to other w124s. Thought maybe it was common on all E420/400Es.

When I took the first rear spring out and saw the blue marking, I was like that's why! IIRC blue ones are the tall ones.

So #21 is supposed to be stiffer than #12?

 

[gsxr]

Yeah! I hated how the rear of my E420 was sitting higher, compared to other w124s. Thought maybe it was common on all E420/400Es.

It's definitely not common on the 034's. I think it was only 034's produced during a certain timeframe? Yours and mine with the oddball tall rear springs are both 1994's.

When I took the first rear spring out and saw the blue marking, I was like that's why! IIRC blue ones are the tall ones.

The difference between red and blue stripes is SMALL. Like, about 1/8" difference in free length. That's why the EPC specifies to adjust with spring pads to compensate.

So #21 is supposed to be stiffer than #12?

#21 isn't necessarily stiffer, but it does have longer free length (+1/4" or more), so it increases ride height. Specs are here.

 

[DJ RaMiN]

It's definitely not common on the 034's. I think it was only 034's produced during a certain timeframe? Yours and mine with the oddball tall rear springs are both 1994's.

The difference between red and blue stripes is SMALL. Like, about 1/8" difference in free length. That's why the EPC specifies to adjust with spring pads to compensate.

#21 isn't necessarily stiffer, but it does have longer free length (+1/4" or more), so it increases ride height. Specs are here.

Oh, alright. Great info in that PDF, thanks for sharing!
I see that #21's wire diameter is .2 mm fatter than #12 as well.

 

[gsxr]

Oh, alright. Great info in that PDF, thanks for sharing!
I see that #21's wire diameter is .2 mm fatter than #12 as well.

Correct - slightly larger wire diameter, however this is offset by more coils and free length. Notice the deflection spec is identical between the two, indicating near-identical "stiffness" with the main difference being ride height.

 

[DJ RaMiN]

Correct - slightly larger wire diameter, however this is offset by more coils and free length. Notice the deflection spec is identical between the two, indicating near-identical "stiffness" with the main difference being ride height.

True, true!

 

[DJ RaMiN]

Latest update:

This one is about cats! So as you know from my previous posts, my factory catalytic converters were clogged, and replaced with Walker Carb Certified Ceramic cats. So the shop that did my exhaust, got too greedy. It used to be my go to shop for the past 15 years, but the ownership changed and etc... So I did my exhaust setup there and later when I went back to do the cats, they wanted $480 just for labor. I was like no, and went back to a different shop and they did it for $250.





Anyways, the car sounds amazing now! I'll have to find some time to do a video.

 

[DJ RaMiN]

Now, I need to figure out what rear spoiler/wing to use. Usually everyone goes with AMG ducktail with this kit, but I like different options as well.



Like pre-merger AMG spoiler is my favorite! But problem with those is that they're old and there is no aftermarket company that remakes them. Also I'm not sure if they used the same material as 190E 16v spoilers, which is kinda like high density foam and they start to lose their shape and have big bubbles. And probably have to repair mounting points.






I also like these spoilers. I don't know what style they're. They do look like 16v spoilers, but for W124.



Of course out of these three options, I think ductail would be the easiest one to install. Just have to trim the bottom to fit trunk handle.

 

[TerryA]

IMOP, Go w/ the ducktail!

 

[R129 UK]

IMOP, Go w/ the ducktail!

This - 100%

 

[DJ RaMiN]

Took the 190E for a quick drive this morning!