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RESTO PROJECT: M119 / W124 / E500 Engine Top-End Refresh
Totally agree on the 80+. I was driving mine earlier this week on very empty freeways around here, and it was just loving the higher speeds we were doing. I won't say how high but significantly above 80+.
Come on, you can tell us. I hit 134-137 mph a few times a week, when conditions permit, on a certain stretch of my regular route, in my 400E. Can't go higher as there's an in-following highway lane further ahead with other cars always present and can't start accelerating sooner until after a turn out that is sometimes occupied by a highway patrolman
I had my previous near 300k miles 1992 400E in excess of 120 mph on a local freeway at a very early hour of the morning. Like a 1976 Jaguar XJ12 that I worked on years ago as a mechanic, the perception of speed just wasn't there. In other words, you didn't feel like you were going that fast.
I haven't had the opportunity to take my current E420 out on the same road (yet), but I'm sure it would perform equally as well.
Dan
I haven't had the opportunity to take my current E420 out on the same road (yet), but I'm sure it would perform equally as well.
Dan
This. ^^^
In a properly-sorted 124, and particularly V8 models, the only difference between 70mph and 140mph is that the tach and speedo needles are pointed more to the right side of the cluster. Maybe a tick more wind noise. Otherwise you want to flip on cruise control and fiddle with the radio, which lucky German residents get to actually do on the Autobahn, traffic permitting...
I’ve had a few bursts to 140+ but in CA it’s pretty risky. One stretch is the end of a north/south frwy that you can see ahead for at least a mile to a rising ramp to an east/west frwy. When you pass the last offramp if its clear ahead you can punch it from 70-80 up to about 140 
before you come up on the transition to the other frwy.
Just a cheap thrill unless you’re caught. That would be ugly. I think over 100 CA can crush your car.
One other time I was going to a Saturday early morning meeting at about 7:00 AM on basically an empty frwy. I was at about 100 and had just passed under an overpass when a CHP Officer on a motorcycle passed me on the right side and motioned me to slowdown then he went on his way. Whew!
I’ve been a pretty good boy since then.
before you come up on the transition to the other frwy.Just a cheap thrill unless you’re caught. That would be ugly. I think over 100 CA can crush your car.
One other time I was going to a Saturday early morning meeting at about 7:00 AM on basically an empty frwy. I was at about 100 and had just passed under an overpass when a CHP Officer on a motorcycle passed me on the right side and motioned me to slowdown then he went on his way. Whew!
I’ve been a pretty good boy since then.
Sorry for the hijacking the thread but do you happen to know how long is that hose and where it ends? And is there any picture where the hose/route could be seen? It seems to be available from the dealer..
Ps.
Just found this topic it has very useful info and great detailed pictures! Thanks Gerry for the excellent work!
jnes
You can see a couple of photos of this hose on the passenger side below.
I would say the length of hose is perhaps 7-8 cm at the most.
Cheers from Von Karman Drive
Irvine, CA
Another "dumb" question.. Are those foams E500E/E400E specific parts? Or can they be found pedestrian W124 models also?In response to a couple of folks who have asked about the so-called "finger foam" piece at the inside of the corners of the bumpers and fender area:
Part numbers are 124 628 51 98 (right side) and 124 628 55 98 (left side).
Both pieces are NLA from MB. RevParts sites say that both are available. Do not believe them.
-jnes
Those foam pieces 124 628 51 98 and 124 628 55 98 can be found on other 124's, appears to be mostly V8's and diesels... but not on every 124 model. It isn't clear in the EPC why some have them, and others do not.
I heard that those foam parts are found only in facelift models (E500)? Can someone verify that?
Or is it also in 500E models?
And on my 1992 400E as well.
For the M104, do you sugggest using the standard seal or the repair seal?
As Gerry said, use the standard seal. However BEFORE removing the old one, try to measure the position relative to the timing cover face. Ideally you want the replacement to be ~3mm away from the old position. If it was flush with the surface, use the seal install tool to press the new one in 3mm deeper.
If the exisitng/old seal is slightly recessed already (1.0-1.5mm) you may want to install the new seal slightly protruding. My M104 had the existing/leaking seal flush and I installed it 3mm deeper/inset, click here for photos.
I'm not sure what the factory position is on M104 but most M119's seem to have the seal slightly recessed, and if I'm replacing one of those, I set it 3mm further out from the original position, as shown below.
I'm ready to start assembling the required pieces to refresh my top end at some point. I think this list --- in post #174 --- is THE list of parts to get (outside of completely NLA parts like the tank to catch excess overflow coolant) --- correct? Thanks.
Hi Gents. Is there a replacement for 119-158-06-85 perhaps? It seems to be NLA. The other side 05-85 is still available. Thanks.
Not that I am aware of. If it is indeed NLA, it’s fairly recent. I saved my old ones. They were in decent condition.
I only got new ones because they were pretty cheap, and avaialble, and a "soft part" under the hood....so why not ?!?
Perhaps parts for people to harvest in the future from 140s and such in the wrecking yards, as long as they are in good condition.
I only got new ones because they were pretty cheap, and avaialble, and a "soft part" under the hood....so why not ?!?
Perhaps parts for people to harvest in the future from 140s and such in the wrecking yards, as long as they are in good condition.
I’ve discovered that it usually is best to call around the dealerships even when the part is listed as discontinued. You never know there might just be one lying around somewhere. It’s time-consuming but doing so paid off for me.
When I tried to get the fan bracket for my M104, it was listed as NLA, but Nick at MB Naperville was kind enough to do a search for me, and he found one ‘somewhere’, apparently the ‘last one’ in the US.
There is no replacement. This is a fairly recent NLA that I was not aware of.
You don't need to replace this plastic frame unless it's damaged. Usually, the damage is the "prong" is broken off that retains the retainer clip for the plug wires (and, that driver-side retainer clip 119-158-01-73 has been NLA for years, but could be 3D printed easily).
If yours are intact, you don't need either side. The covers are more often damaged (119-158-02-85 left, 119-158-04-85 right), either the tiny prong at the inside bottom corner is broken, or the upper square hole is broken that locks the cover in place.
The @gsxr is correct - these plastic frame parts typically DO NOT need to be replaced, unless a prior "mechanic" was in there and somehow they were stressed or broken, such as when replacing the cam solenoids or seals, or replacing spark plug wires. The mounting holes are metal-reinforced, so again they typically don't break unless someone who didn't know what they were doing somehow cracked them.
Most people won't really need to replace them.
Most people won't really need to replace them.
May I ask --- in the bold above, where does part 000-987-27-27 (or superseded 129-987-10-27) come from?
I have identified all the other ones not in bold on diagram 119.974 - 14 - 030 as follows:
But I cannot find the applicability of this part number to the M119.974 in the context of the work @gerryvz that you did? 000-987-27-27 (or superseded 129-987-10-27)
I see the following diagram for the SL500:
And I see that the part is used for the charcoal filter for the 124.036, but I dont remember @gerryvz you touching the charcoal filter. Am I missing something obvious? Thanks.
000-987-27-27 is the 8mm OD black Tecalan tubing from the intake manifold, to the purge ("MOT") valve near the EZL. It would be considered part of the replacement of all the PCV toobies. See engine group 14, subgroup 125, callout 32. Two meters are required (1.6m needed).
Thank you!!!! I don't know how I missed that on my gsheet!
@gerryvz @gsxr
Question if you don't mind --- I spent several hours going through that awesome exhaustive parts list --- thank you!
In this diagram below, I noticed that the only parts on your parts list are those that are highlighted - 104, 119, 122, and 137.
If you had to do it all over again, would you again just replace those four parts, or would you replace more of all that razzmatazz there, like 125, 98, 101, etc etc etc...?
Question if you don't mind --- I spent several hours going through that awesome exhaustive parts list --- thank you!
In this diagram below, I noticed that the only parts on your parts list are those that are highlighted - 104, 119, 122, and 137.
If you had to do it all over again, would you again just replace those four parts, or would you replace more of all that razzmatazz there, like 125, 98, 101, etc etc etc...?
Not necessarily needed to replace those peripheral parts because they are not soft parts. The parts I replaced are soft parts / rubber hoses. The other parts you mentioned are not soft parts, and thus were not degraded.
Any part I found (clamps, etc) that were compromised or degraded were ordered and replaced. Examples would be zip ties, or the clamps that hold the transmission cooler lines to the edges of the oil pan. Some degraded stuff like those clamps were not discovered until I was into the job, and then put on a subsequent parts order.
I cannot tell you enough the value of thoroughness, and taking one’s time to do the job.
Realistically, I could probably have done this job in two months instead of the five that it took me. I contracted Lyme Disease and babesiosis in the middle of it, which took me out for the better part of a month, and otherwise because of COVID just took my time. The scope creep also contributed, but in the end the job was much more thorough and satisfying. It was a long and strange journey from the original quest to merely replace a badly leaking front crank seal…..
Any part I found (clamps, etc) that were compromised or degraded were ordered and replaced. Examples would be zip ties, or the clamps that hold the transmission cooler lines to the edges of the oil pan. Some degraded stuff like those clamps were not discovered until I was into the job, and then put on a subsequent parts order.
I cannot tell you enough the value of thoroughness, and taking one’s time to do the job.
Realistically, I could probably have done this job in two months instead of the five that it took me. I contracted Lyme Disease and babesiosis in the middle of it, which took me out for the better part of a month, and otherwise because of COVID just took my time. The scope creep also contributed, but in the end the job was much more thorough and satisfying. It was a long and strange journey from the original quest to merely replace a badly leaking front crank seal…..
I did not mess with the charcoal filter. Didn’t see that I needed to. Even the purge valve was not in the original scope, until I determined that it was not working.
I would bet that 95% of peoples’ purge valves on this forum are not working. But they have no idea this is the case.
It's the black larger-diameter Tecalan tubing. MB part number 000 987 27 27. You need 1600mm of this tubing. It should be ordered by the meter from MB, so you'll have to get 2 meters.
Great, thanks.
Hello Gerry,
I removed the smog pump the other day and put it back without using the MB anaerobic sealant and now I have a massive oil leak that is coming from somewhere near the smog pump... Do you think these two things are related?
I also don´t have any of the smog pump hoses attached because they all broke and I haven´t found (locally) replacement hoses yet. Can oil leak from here too?
I'm not a Gerry, nor do I play one on TV, but it's very likely your work is related to the leak. The air pump bracket bolts require anaerobic sealant (MB or aftermarket) on the bolts, or there will be a significant oil leak. See attached photo.
There should be no oil leaking from the air hoses.
The smog pump hoses just inject air into the exhaust, so that is all that they contain. You can only order these hoses from the dealership. As I recall they are not super cheap, but won't break your bank account either. In any case, they are a once in an ownership replacement. I would say that around 95% of the people on this forum have completely fossilized smog pump hoses that would break a window if removed and thrown at it. But....out of sight, out of mind......
Yes, the smog pump [bracket] bolts MUST use the anaerobic sealant to prevent oil from escaping. That is 100% the cause of your oil leakage problem. Unfortunately, you will have to remove the pump and do the job over. Order the hoses from the dealership. I think I had all of them laid out -- as I recall there are three or four hoses. It's why I try to document my steps carefully for the benefit of others who come later.....
Yes, the smog pump [bracket] bolts MUST use the anaerobic sealant to prevent oil from escaping. That is 100% the cause of your oil leakage problem. Unfortunately, you will have to remove the pump and do the job over. Order the hoses from the dealership. I think I had all of them laid out -- as I recall there are three or four hoses. It's why I try to document my steps carefully for the benefit of others who come later.....
Is this still true in 2022?Those Beru rotors are reboxed OE/Genuine Doduco. If you look closely at the top you'll find the MB part number, and also the Star log, both covered in lacquer.
They appear to be red in FCP's listing vs black-colored Gerry installed
I think you missed this discussion in the last year or two. Beru changed what they rebox. Previously it was OE Doduco, now it is reboxed Facet with a slightly different Beru part number so you can tell the difference. Deets are at this link. Since FCP has t hem on clearance, I'd suspect either they are going NLA, or FCP had too many warranty claims and they are dropping them from their catalog.
If you can find any of the old-stock Beru/Doduco (possibly at NAPA) for a low enough price, great. Otherwise, shell out ~$90/ea for OE, 119-158-02-31. But do not buy the orange/Facet/Berus. Second choice would be Bosch from FCP with lifetime warranty.
Is this more of a theory, or more of an empirical observation that if the new seal is installed in the same spot the old one was in (camshaft, crankshaft, etc) it will leak?Now, it's time to turn to the cylinder head cover itself. Examining it closely, I could see that the cam seal was inset into the cover about 2mm. I will try to take better photographs, but when I replace it with the new seal, I will only inset it around 0.5mm into the cover. This should give about a 1.5mm off-set from the original position of the seam against the camshaft.
It's somewhere in the FSM that in general, if replacing a radial seal that has been in the same position for a long period of time (say, 100kmi or more) then the new seal should be located 2-3mm away from the original location. Applies to crank seals front & rear, and these cam seals too. Crank/hub seals should be ~3mm different as discussed previously, cam might be ok with 1.5-2.0mm.
Any time you replace a radial seal, carefully inspecting the sealing surface of the shaft (crank/hub, or cam sprocket) for ridges or other abnormal wear / pitting / etc.
Be careful though, if a seal was replaced previously, it may have already been moved from the factory-installed position. In that case you want the new seal to be at the best surface of the shaft, and not accidentally move it back to a more-worn area. YMMV, etc.
What is the purpose of a pintle cap on tip of the injector?And here you have a rebuilt injector. Rinse and repeat seven more times !!!
A pintle cap is the small replaceable piece of the injector designed to protect the fragile pintle end of a fuel injector.
During the installation/extraction phase? Otherwise it has bearing on the functionality of injector at all, right?
I suppose primarily during installation and extraction yes. But in any case make sure they are all present and in good condition.
I do renew the injector o rings and pintle caps etc when I have the injectors out and also ultrasonic clean, flow and drip test them.
No. I still get 16~17 MPG around town. My latest fillup on Sat shows 19.5 MPG for a brisk drive from NYC home a few weeks back. Can’t complain about that.
Understood, thanks. I was curious if the disconnected vacuum line to the air pump that you've discovered at initial disassembly stage and partially clogged EGR pipe had any effect on the fuel economy
The air pump and EGR primarily affect emissions (at different points in the warmup/operating cycle) but should not affect overall fuel economy.
If you do replace the pintle caps, make sure that you enlarge the hole in the replacement caps to the same diameter as the original caps. I think I documented this in my HOW-TO ... I just used a drill press and a socket to hold the cap for drilling, after I measured the original caps' diameter using a drill bit.
The replacement caps' holes tend to be too small as they come.
I got my pintle caps from Master Injector in UK Gerry, I believe they make them directly and the fitment was exact same as OEM IIRC but will check in future as I have a M104 set to do this weekend actually!
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