-
Hi Guest !
Welcome to the 500Eboard forum.
Since its founding in late 2008, 500Eboard has become the leading resource on the Internet for all things related to the Mercedes-Benz 500E and E500. In recent years, we have also expanded to include the 400E and E420 models, which are directly related to the 500E/E500.
We invite you to browse and take advantage of the information and resources here on the site. If you find helpful information, please register for full membership, and you'll find even more resources available. Feel free to ask questions, and make liberal use of the "Search" function to find answers.
We hope you will become an active contributor to the community!
Sincerely,
500Eboard Management
OWNER a777fan (E420)
- Thread starter a777fan
- Start date
)
If you would like Robs input, just tell him how you would do it.
Then he will tell you how you are doing it WRONG!
I agree, slots I've done - go much much deeper, even the factory slots I've cut deeper, and for quite some time, since the modification, zero moisture issues (my spare caps)
Regards,
D
Dave- what are nominal voltages and durations? Low 30s for V and 1.5-1.9 for duration?Excellent diagnostics! This is exactly what I was expecting to see, abnormal voltages all related to one cap, likely the passenger side. The initial voltages of high 30's and low 40's were an early indicator even without misfiring. The ~70v readings will appear with a misfire.
Could you post a close-up photo of the slots you added to the cap? I'm wondering if they are not quite deep enough. @JC220 might have some input as well. With adequate slotting, AND after the engine is driven for 30-60 minutes at normal operating temp after the slots are added, maybe the issue will go away.
BTW, the strong odor should not occur unless there are active misfires. If you have abnormal odors with good ignition voltages, there may be a separate, unrelated issue (would need some LH live data when it smells funky at operating temp).
What LH data should I be poking at if the gas odor persists?
Typical voltages are low 30's and they should all be reasonably similar. Big jumps to higher numbers (say, 40+) generally means something is fishy, and you'll see double voltage (70-ish) with a misfire on that cylinder. I can't recall the typical duration but the duration you see with low 30's should be correct.
I'm not quite sure about the LH values for odor, but I'd look at kg/hr, O2 voltage cycling, duration, and the on/off ratio to start with. This assumes the odor persists after the slots are enlarged and also at normal operating temps. I'm hoping the odor was related to the misfire and will go away.
I'm not quite sure about the LH values for odor, but I'd look at kg/hr, O2 voltage cycling, duration, and the on/off ratio to start with. This assumes the odor persists after the slots are enlarged and also at normal operating temps. I'm hoping the odor was related to the misfire and will go away.
Thanks dave.
I’ll take a look at the LH screens in HHT-WIN, but IIRC, the O2 readings available didn’t make intuitive sense initially. I’ll likely be back with more videos and questions later
Just performed a smoke test.
The throttle body is a real bugger to seal up correctly. Hard to tell if I have leaks from the intake donuts or if there is just smoke leaking out around the rubber glove I am using to seal the throttle body.
For sure though, I had leaks at the oil dipstick tube (quickly replaced the o-ring), and the EGR valve (NLA). Is there a way to repair the EGR valve?
The throttle body is a real bugger to seal up correctly. Hard to tell if I have leaks from the intake donuts or if there is just smoke leaking out around the rubber glove I am using to seal the throttle body.
For sure though, I had leaks at the oil dipstick tube (quickly replaced the o-ring), and the EGR valve (NLA). Is there a way to repair the EGR valve?
Why don't throw out the egr valve?
Would this be noticed during emission tests?
Would this be noticed during emission tests?
I got the air pump delete pulley assembly from MB and removed all the emissions stuff from my 500E. Blanking plates are available - at least in aftermarket terms they are. (I had my own made and yellow zinc plated at the time)
And a GSXR chip which removed the cold upshift delay.
When you see the goo and junk the EGR pipes into your engine it's best get rid unless an annual inspection would fail it.
On newer V8s like m113 deleting the EGR may not be a good idea or even possible but on m119 it certainly is possible.
And a GSXR chip which removed the cold upshift delay.
When you see the goo and junk the EGR pipes into your engine it's best get rid unless an annual inspection would fail it.
On newer V8s like m113 deleting the EGR may not be a good idea or even possible but on m119 it certainly is possible.
Indeed guys! Thanks.
I live in WA state where we just ended our bi-annual emissions checks, so no worries there. I will have to start looking for a blanking plate, as I think this is the only option at this point.
744- do the euro 420s come with an EGR? Or is that a US only thing?
I live in WA state where we just ended our bi-annual emissions checks, so no worries there. I will have to start looking for a blanking plate, as I think this is the only option at this point.
744- do the euro 420s come with an EGR? Or is that a US only thing?
Euro E420s had EGR too.
This German company sells a delete kit as well as an secondary-air pump delete kit:
Mercedes M119.97X AGR Ersatz Kit
This German company sells a delete kit as well as an secondary-air pump delete kit:
Mercedes M119.97X AGR Ersatz Kit
Regarding potential source of water getting in the trunk, I had similar issue and it was the rivets under the windshield trim. Need to fix it, for now, I don’t drive in the rain
(Had jumped in the trunk like in the old movies and had someone soak the outside with a garden hose to find the leak).
(Had jumped in the trunk like in the old movies and had someone soak the outside with a garden hose to find the leak).
Sweet! Yeah that would be one way to confirm for sure.Regarding potential source of water getting in the trunk, I had similar issue and it was the rivets under the windshield trim. Need to fix it, for now, I don’t drive in the rain
(Had jumped in the trunk like in the old movies and had someone soak the outside with a garden hose to find the leak).
I just ordered new rivets and a trim strip. Should be here soon?
Here is a question...
Am I going to get a
light when I install this? I've read on this forum that I will, but I don't understand how the DM would be able to tell. The valve itself has no monitors, and I have a REALLY hard time believing that the O2 will be able to pick up a EGR 'signature' with high enough resolution to provide the ECU/DM with a way to check for proper ops...
I'll be installing this either way, so we'll all find out eventually, but I wanted to see if anyone already knew the answer definitively.
Am I going to get a
light when I install this? I've read on this forum that I will, but I don't understand how the DM would be able to tell. The valve itself has no monitors, and I have a REALLY hard time believing that the O2 will be able to pick up a EGR 'signature' with high enough resolution to provide the ECU/DM with a way to check for proper ops...I'll be installing this either way, so we'll all find out eventually, but I wanted to see if anyone already knew the answer definitively.
That’s it @a777fan , time to take the bulb out once and for all
Knowing you, you will find a very sophisticated and highly elegant technical solution for the issue. In my book you are a legend Jon, because Steve G. didn’t want to touch the ASR project with a ten foot pole and you implemented it beautifully. Thanks again for that!
Stupid early ‘90s sophistication!!!!
That’s it @a777fan , time to take the bulb out once and for all
Knowing you, you will find a very sophisticated and highly elegant technical solution for the issue. In my book you are a legend Jon, because Steve G. didn’t want to touch the ASR project with a ten foot pole and you implemented it beautifully. Thanks again for that!
Thank u for the kind words, and you are more than welcome @TimL. It was a fun little project, and I am very glad you are happy with the quality of work.
We should grab that coffee soon!
Last edited:
So… I installed the block off plate. But guess what I found… evidence that it was actually the gasket that had failed:
See that little smudge in the center cutout area of the gasket? It appears like the gasket sealing surface has failed in that area, and has been letting exhaust gas (or something else hot) through.
Theory: I replaced the EGR gasket when i did my top end refresh a couple of years ago, so its not the original. Since then, however, I’ve had multiple bouts of the wet distro cap misfires, which have on occasion, resulted in intake backfiring. I’m wondering if one of those backfires was potent enough to blow out the gasket and create a the vacuum leak?
Anyway- the blockoff plate is installed, and i took it for a fairly long drive in afternoon traffic. City, highway, stop and go. It performed pretty well. The occasional idle oscillation I have been experiencing (this is what led me to do the smoke test in the first place…) Did not occur on this drive. We’ll see if it stays away.
No check engine light yet, but as Dave states, I’m sure there is already a pending code. When it does pop on, I might swap the valve back on with a new gasket and check for leaks. I would love to keep the dash lamp free.
Oh, one more thing: has anyone ever found that their MAF housing is the source of a vaccuum leak? I was getting some wisps from that area, and it appears like its coming from the plastic MAF case where two of the sides meet at a corner and there is adhesive goo (sealant) applied.
See that little smudge in the center cutout area of the gasket? It appears like the gasket sealing surface has failed in that area, and has been letting exhaust gas (or something else hot) through.
Theory: I replaced the EGR gasket when i did my top end refresh a couple of years ago, so its not the original. Since then, however, I’ve had multiple bouts of the wet distro cap misfires, which have on occasion, resulted in intake backfiring. I’m wondering if one of those backfires was potent enough to blow out the gasket and create a the vacuum leak?
Anyway- the blockoff plate is installed, and i took it for a fairly long drive in afternoon traffic. City, highway, stop and go. It performed pretty well. The occasional idle oscillation I have been experiencing (this is what led me to do the smoke test in the first place…) Did not occur on this drive. We’ll see if it stays away.
No check engine light yet, but as Dave states, I’m sure there is already a pending code. When it does pop on, I might swap the valve back on with a new gasket and check for leaks. I would love to keep the dash lamp free.
Oh, one more thing: has anyone ever found that their MAF housing is the source of a vaccuum leak? I was getting some wisps from that area, and it appears like its coming from the plastic MAF case where two of the sides meet at a corner and there is adhesive goo (sealant) applied.
I would doubt that gasket was really leaking that much if at all. You can test the integrity of the valve itself with a mityvac or similar vacumn testing tool. Pull a vac on it watch it close and see if it holds for a few minutes without moving or hissing.
The external sealant bead on the MAF is also normal and that's how they came new
Awesome that is so exciting to see! Looks like you are giving Uter some deferred attention.
Your phrase “it’s sportline time” made me think of “it’s skyline time…” which has nothing to do with sportline other than it rhymes, and that this commercial came out the same time period as when the w124 was selling ….
Got the front left in today…
Did run into something interesting. The original spring didn’t seem to be seated correctly in the lower control arm.
When I placed the new spring, I ensured that it sat right up against the stop…
Did I do it correctly? Or should I go back and rotate it slightly like the original one was?
Did run into something interesting. The original spring didn’t seem to be seated correctly in the lower control arm.
When I placed the new spring, I ensured that it sat right up against the stop…
Did I do it correctly? Or should I go back and rotate it slightly like the original one was?
Attachments
Nice work. Spring is installed correctly. FSM states the coil end should rest against indent in control arm.
Be sure to let us know how the car handles when project completed.
Regards,
Peter Weissman
Be sure to let us know how the car handles when project completed.
Regards,
Peter Weissman
@a777fan, Jon, something that happened to me when I changed my old 300E’s front end to Koni Red shocks an Eibach lowering springs. I torqued the bolts holding the lower A-Frame behind the brake rotor to the specified 85ftlbs (Not sure on that torque. I believe thats what it was.)
Anyway, After I drove the car I had a slight clunk in the front end. I went back thru my work and found that the bolts I torqued to spec were not tight on one side. It was kinda weird I could push/pull on the rotor and it had a little knock. I re-torqued (actually over torqued until it tightened up the gap) the bolts and it went away.
Point being, make sure the torque values are achieved on those bolts)
PS; This tidbit of info is from memory but it really happened but it’s about 25 years since I did that job. I can’t actually see the bolts in your pics but I’m pretty sure they’re behind the rotors.
Take Care
Anyway, After I drove the car I had a slight clunk in the front end. I went back thru my work and found that the bolts I torqued to spec were not tight on one side. It was kinda weird I could push/pull on the rotor and it had a little knock. I re-torqued (actually over torqued until it tightened up the gap) the bolts and it went away.
Point being, make sure the torque values are achieved on those bolts)
PS; This tidbit of info is from memory but it really happened but it’s about 25 years since I did that job. I can’t actually see the bolts in your pics but I’m pretty sure they’re behind the rotors.
Take Care
Thanks All!
Terry- appreciate the feedback. Yep going to make sure everything up there is super duper snug and up to the right torque specs!
Yes! The Bavarian brothers have been diverting my attention, but now we’re back. Its nice to have it operable again, and this sportline upgrade is something I’ve been lusting after since I purchased it.
Ugh. Suspension work. Awful. Convienently my glove stash ran out yesterday, and the amazon delivery that was supposed to come today never showed. My hands look like I’ve been working in a coal mine.
3/4 of the way done. A couple of top tips:
1) Loosen the front control arm eccentric bolts from the nut. If you don’t you’ll wonder what nut torqued the crap outta them until you realize the eccentric washer and bolt head are one piece. You’ll also likely distort the eccentric guide plates which are welded to the chassis.
2) When doing the rear, just go ahead and disconnect the shock and the swaybar end link and drop the lower control arm. I don’t know how you’d do it otherwise, and I have both klann compressors.
3) the MB bolt kit for the rear has substituted a course thread bolt for the fine pitch thread bolt that came from the factory. You therefore cannot use the new lock nut from the kit and the old bolt. No workee.
3/4 of the way done. A couple of top tips:
1) Loosen the front control arm eccentric bolts from the nut. If you don’t you’ll wonder what nut torqued the crap outta them until you realize the eccentric washer and bolt head are one piece. You’ll also likely distort the eccentric guide plates which are welded to the chassis.
2) When doing the rear, just go ahead and disconnect the shock and the swaybar end link and drop the lower control arm. I don’t know how you’d do it otherwise, and I have both klann compressors.
3) the MB bolt kit for the rear has substituted a course thread bolt for the fine pitch thread bolt that came from the factory. You therefore cannot use the new lock nut from the kit and the old bolt. No workee.
Sooo... not sure if it was apparent from yesterdays post, but by the evening, I had had it up to 'here' with the Sportline conversion.
When I threw in the towel last night, I had the passenger rear to complete. I took another crack at it this afternoon and had the whole thing wrapped up in about an hour. I can't think of a better example than that as a reminder; When you're fed up with a project, especially one that is supposedly a hobby, don't keep pushing yourself. Take a step back, breathe, and come back to it later. Today went smoothly, and was much more enjoyable!
The results are pretty dramatic!
Before (different wheels of course)
After:
A serious amount of wheel gap is now gone... and I think the car overall looks more proper.
The ride is much firmer, but still tolerable. This says a lot on our poor poor Seattle roads. I'll need more miles under my belt, but the floatiness that I found unsettling seems to be eliminated. Also - an odd clunk from the front right over speed bumps seems to have been solved with the new control arms.
Next up - New 16" tires for the rims, and an alignment. I need to reach out to Steve Geyer to see when I can get in.
When I threw in the towel last night, I had the passenger rear to complete. I took another crack at it this afternoon and had the whole thing wrapped up in about an hour. I can't think of a better example than that as a reminder; When you're fed up with a project, especially one that is supposedly a hobby, don't keep pushing yourself. Take a step back, breathe, and come back to it later. Today went smoothly, and was much more enjoyable!
The results are pretty dramatic!
Before (different wheels of course)
After:
A serious amount of wheel gap is now gone... and I think the car overall looks more proper.
The ride is much firmer, but still tolerable. This says a lot on our poor poor Seattle roads. I'll need more miles under my belt, but the floatiness that I found unsettling seems to be eliminated. Also - an odd clunk from the front right over speed bumps seems to have been solved with the new control arms.
Next up - New 16" tires for the rims, and an alignment. I need to reach out to Steve Geyer to see when I can get in.
Great work Jon! 
And great point on knowing when to take a break! I have days like that too for some reason. Bolts snap, stuff goes wrong and after hours of struggle set the tools down and come back another day. And more often than not the next crack at it goes sooo much smoother!
And great point on knowing when to take a break! I have days like that too for some reason. Bolts snap, stuff goes wrong and after hours of struggle set the tools down and come back another day. And more often than not the next crack at it goes sooo much smoother!
@a777fan - Looks fantastic! Good on you for cracking on and getting things squared away. I remember years ago stumbling across your parts availability spreadsheet for the 124.034 and noticing all the sportline suspension modifications you had planned. Now to see things finally on the car and ready for you to enjoy is great to see!
The monos were off 202, so the offset was never right up front and would rub going around turns at high speed etc. I love the look, but didn’t want to continuously be damaging the car. If I can find a w124 specific set at some point, I’d go back in a heartbeat, but those are like hens teeth.
Untill then, I’m going to get some nice fresh Michelin PS A/S 4 mounted up on the 16” 8-holes i found and bin the 15” inchers for good.
Wow, very nice work!
And wise words regarding talking a break sometimes.
And wise words regarding talking a break sometimes.
Jon, what width/offset were the front wheels? If they were the 7.5" version from the front of a C36, those can be made to clear (with 225/45 tyres) if you roll the fender lips and add spacers at the bumper & fender leading edge. It's all in the AMG wheel install docs.
I remember looking at those awhile back, but thinking… bah… i haven’t rolled fenders before…
I’ll look at the actual ET when I get home to confirm and report back. Regardless, I do like the ‘stealthy’ look of the 16” 8 holes. If you know, you know…. Yadda yadda…
Bruno Sacco Approved Solution
right there!
It looks perfect now, Jon! When you get a chance, can you measure the distance from bottom of fender lip to wheel center, at all 4 corners? And note how much fuel was in the tank when measuring?
I fiddled with our 94 E420 to get the height set at 14.25" at all four corners with a full tank of gas. With an empty tank the rear lifts to about 14.75". This is with stock springs, thin pads, and the front springs cut 1/4 coil. I was trying to get it slightly lower while retaining the squishy stock ride. I need to get photos of it clean... only pic I have is after a road trip where it was filthy:
I fiddled with our 94 E420 to get the height set at 14.25" at all four corners with a full tank of gas. With an empty tank the rear lifts to about 14.75". This is with stock springs, thin pads, and the front springs cut 1/4 coil. I was trying to get it slightly lower while retaining the squishy stock ride. I need to get photos of it clean... only pic I have is after a road trip where it was filthy:
Thanks Dave! Yep, no prob I will grab those measures for you. Will likely wait a couple days for it to settle out first however.It looks perfect now, Jon! When you get a chance, can you measure the distance from bottom of fender lip to wheel center, at all 4 corners? And note how much fuel was in the tank when measuring?
I fiddled with our 94 E420 to get the height set at 14.25" at all four corners with a full tank of gas. With an empty tank the rear lifts to about 14.75". This is with stock springs, thin pads, and the front springs cut 1/4 coil. I was trying to get it slightly lower while retaining the squishy stock ride. I need to get photos of it clean... only pic I have is after a road trip where it was filthy:
View attachment 145002
Not sure I have seen your 420 before! Filthy or not... It's certainly the right color!!!
no way! I totally thought it was 744!!!Yup - DIRT color! Hard to tell in that photo but it's 702 Smoke Silver. Purchased with 114kmi in 2013 after our 744 silver one was totaled, the 702 now has 161kmi on it.
On my 94 034 I did a complete front and rear suspension rebuild 10-12? years ago and used Sportline parts for everything. While I haven’t measured the height, with one bump front and two bump rear pads it always sits with the rear just a hair higher than the front.
With the AMG front fender spacer kit (you can make one with, gasp, parts from Home Depot that’s really close) and rolling the fenders slightly, I have had zero rubbing with 17x7.5 wheels with ETs anywhere from the ET34 Aero3 on there now, to ET37 Flyweights, to ET42 Aero2 Monoblocks.
Although, for extra insurance I bought the Eastwood fender roller and used it before installing the ET34s. I followed the AMG docs on Dave’s site and it worked great without any issues. Many thanks again Dave!
The Eastwood made in USA roller, that can be had with their online coupons for around $70.
One change I highly recommend with a full Sportline suspension is swapping in a set of 500e sway bars. They are the icing on the cake.
With the AMG front fender spacer kit (you can make one with, gasp, parts from Home Depot that’s really close) and rolling the fenders slightly, I have had zero rubbing with 17x7.5 wheels with ETs anywhere from the ET34 Aero3 on there now, to ET37 Flyweights, to ET42 Aero2 Monoblocks.
Although, for extra insurance I bought the Eastwood fender roller and used it before installing the ET34s. I followed the AMG docs on Dave’s site and it worked great without any issues. Many thanks again Dave!
The Eastwood made in USA roller, that can be had with their online coupons for around $70.
One change I highly recommend with a full Sportline suspension is swapping in a set of 500e sway bars. They are the icing on the cake.
