OWNER a777fan (E420)

[lowman]

I love the Michelins --- they are correct!

On balance though, I have found Michelins seem to get brown much faster than Bridgestones. I don't know why this is. I have Michelins Pilot Super Sports and Bridgestone Potenza S04s side by side on two cars in the garage. The Bridgies start to need tire dressing after 1000 miles or so. The Michelins seem to cry out for dressing about 350 or so miles. Dunno why this is. (This is all dry weather driving - no precipitation)

i have the same experience with them wanting desperatly to be brown.But the funny thing...its not the same for all 4 tires..just one/ two of the ones on my 500..and two on the EvoLtwin.On the 500e i have Michelin ps2 N3 "s..and on the EvoLtwin i have Michelin Super Sports

 

[a777fan]

More cleaning tonight. [emoji4]

I’m in love with this dodo juice cleaner. I found their conditioner on ebay. Its coming from lithuania. Odd but that was the only place i could find it.

Some backseat action:

25 cents, a paper clip, and a mangled piece of gum were the spoils trapped under the seat.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[a777fan]

A couple of updates today:




Very excited about this addition to the car. I have been looking for a wood steering wheel from an S-Class for a bit... but then member Hakie picked up his new E420 project, which happened to be fully loaded, and included this awesome wood sportline wheel. We came to an agreement, and about a week later it was stateside. I was finally able to install today, and boy. I love it. The wheel isn't perfect as it has been used for the past 24 years, but I think its patina matches the rest of my car perfectly!

I'm pretty excited about this next update too. I've been working for a few months with an automotive sticker supplier to get a good replica made of the appropriate windscreen stickers for NA MB's of our vintage. We all know the junk/inaccurate stuff the classic center is hocking as 'appropriate' for our cars, when the one they are selling is of a MUCH later vintage. There has been another supplier of these making them available through ebay for about 8 bucks a pop, but unfortunately these aren't correct either. They have rounded corners, and are of a two piece design. I think what you see below is the closest thing available currently to the original sticker that came on our vehicles. The corners are square... the font is correctly placed, sized, and is clear. The overall size is very close, if not exact to the original.



My wind screen had been replaced by the PO, and therefore I was missing the sticker. Not anymore!

I do have extras of these that I will be making available for sale to the nutters (like myself) that enjoy this kinda stuff. PM me if you are interested... I might eventually get around to making a for sale ad.

A big thanks to GVZ and Gixxer, who both helped me out tremendously during the dev process. Cheers guys!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[a777fan]

135k today! Changed the oil and filter last night. Its the first time I have had the underbelly pan off since I changed the cam seal. I am happy to report that there is no longer leakage on the passenger side of the engine. The new seal seems to be doing its thing!

I did notice some dampness on the belly pan off towards the left side. Nothing on the engine looked overly damp or anything, but the power steering hose did have a sheen to it. Not sure if its slowly seeping?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[nocfn]

From underneath, check the S hose and with the plastic cover off the left side exposing the wires, you should be able to view the short hose at worst use a dental mirror. Usual suspects.... pics or it didn’t happen....

 

[a777fan]

Its been a hot minute since I have posted or updated here, but only because Üters been running like a champ.

I’m currently off for the holidays and today I was able to spend some time cleaning up the shop a bit as part of my next project.

As part of the clean up/re-organization I was able to hang up this beauty today (finally!)



It had taken me a better part of a year to get it mounted up (colorplak) and hung up. Very happy with the results. Joe’s prints will be going up next!!!

I was also able to hang up a souvenir shirt my uncle got me from Japan when I was a kid:



He had an NSX, and I was therefore obsessed. I got bit by the honda bug, and thats where I actually started with my first car, a 1988 Acura Integra LS.

Anyway, the cleanup was to make room to pull the engine out of my 2004 r32 for a rebuild. I was able to separate the exhaust and the axles this afternoon, so the only remaining connections are the engine mounts. Still waiting on a biiiiig delivery from HF before I am able to pull. It should have been here today, but the tracker indicates its still in SLC :shifty:




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[a777fan]

Not much to report on the E420 front at the moment. There is something I'd like to hear opinions on however:

When downshifting from third to second, I experience this odd hesitation, and I am struggling to accurately describe it. It's like the transmission will downshift to second, but the engine takes a second to realize it, and 'hook up' with the new lower gear.

Not sure if this is transmission related, or engine/ignition related, so I thought I would see if anyone else has ever noticed something similar...

I'll come back and edit this if I figure out a better way to describe what I am experiencing.

 

[a777fan]

Currently sitting on the side of the road waiting for a tow truck. It decided to have a repeat of its ‘no start when hot’ behavior that it displayed right after putting everything back together following the top end ‘rebuild’ back last year.

I was sitting at a light, and it began to idle a little bit oddly. Sight miss fires maybe? Popped it into neutral, idle came up a bit and it seemed fine. Light turned green, dropped it into drive and it died the second i started to tip in throttle. Then it didn’t want to start.

Two good samaritans helped push me off the road and here i sit.

I’ll have to start digging through the forum once I’ve gotten home and cooled down a bit, but if I remember correctly from my previous experience there doesnt seem to be a smoking gun!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[emerydc8]

At least the snow is gone.

 

[a777fan]

OK a quick rundown of what I was able to 'check out' today. After I got home, I let the car cool down before I started diagnosing.

Symptoms after I got it home: Car would always start, whether or not it was cold or hot. This was different than what it was doing this morning, where it died, and would crank but NOT re-start. This afternoon the engine would idle well when cold, but as the car warmed up (80+ deg C) it would miss occasionally, idle would oscillate and then would eventually die.

I figured I would just start with the basics. In order to run, an engine needs air, fuel and spark all arranged at the right time, right?

Air
Compression
The engine has been running like a champ, so at the moment I don't suspect anything wrong mechanically with the engine. I did not do any troubleshooting of this path today.

MAF
I don't have an SDS, so all the testing I did here was less than scientific. After I had warmed up the car and it was beginning to act up I tried disconnecting/reconnecting the MAF. With the car in Park/Neutral I was able to disconnect and reconnect the MAF and the engine would bog a bit but would remain running. If I attempted the same test with the car in gear, the engine would either surge a bit and recover or die upon disconnection, and then struggle and die upon re-connection. This behavior was consistent. The car seemed to like running with the MAF disconnected better than it did with the MAF connected.

I'm highly suspicious of the MAF at this point, but I am unaware of any way to test its output without SDS. Does anyone have a way to look at the resistances across the pins on the sensor itself and come to any conclusions? I'm suspicious of the MAF as the exhaust does still smell of gasoline while running. I was noticing this all through my diagnosis this afternoon (car warm or car hot). My limited knowledge of the LH system leads me to believe there are really only two inputs to the system that can enrichen and lean the mixture. They are the MAF and the O2 sensor. I replaced the O2 last summer/fall with a new OE, so that would leave the MAF as a possible culprit. I've also had MAF failures on other cars result in the symptoms (hot stall) that I am experiencing here.


Fuel Delivery
Pump
I hooked up my fuel pressure gage to the rail and turned the key. Pressure shot up to 3.2 bar. It remained around this level while the car was running. When I removed the vacuum line from the FPR pressure rose to approximately 3.8 bar. As the car warmed, I did get it to start acting up. Eventually it stalled on its own, and Fuel Pressure remained ~3.2 bar at the rail the whole time. This seems to indicate there is no issue with the fuel pumps.

Injectors
For kicks I measured the resistance of each injector cold. Sat right around 14.9 ohms. I re-measured the resistance after the car was hot and was acting up. The drivers side was still around ~14.9 ohms. The passenger side resistance had come up a little bit, but was in the 15.1-15.2 range. Not massively different. I also tested the harness for 12v and a 'ground' with the key ON, engine off. Each injector had ~12V at one pin and 0V at the other. I do not have a Noid light or an oscilloscope, so I was unable to confirm that the LH module was switching the injectors correctly, but I did a 'feel' test on the injector bodies with the engine running, and could feel each 'clicking'.

Other observations and thoughts: Fuel pressure in the rail remains ~3.2 bar with the key off. This seems to indicate there is not an injector(s) mechanically stuck open or leaking, as this would quickly deplete the pressure in the rail. This observation was made when the car was cold and behaving as well as when it was hot and misbehaving.

I would like to get an injector test harness which would allow me to 'fire' each injector with the car off, and observe a corresponding drop in pressure, but i currently don't have one. I'd love to hear if any of you have 'made your own' or have a recommendation for one.

Spark
Given the penchant of this engine to have conductive junk build up behind the insulators and cause havoc with spark generation, I figured pulling everything off for an inspection would be a good idea.

Passenger side cap, rotor and insulator:





Insulator was bone dry. There was some spotting on them, but that appeared to be part of the insulator surface. They would not wipe off.




The replacement cam seal is still doing its job!




Drivers side was similar in all respects. Not super jazzed about the condition of the cap on this side, but its not horrible.




Again, insulator had this spotting, but were bone dry. The spots did not want to move, just like the passengers side.



I then measured the resistance of each plug wire and boot. The engine was cooling down during the measuring process, but I did not see anything massively out of line:
<style type="text/css"><!--td {border: 1px solid #ccc;}br {mso-data-placement:same-cell;}--></style>[TABLE="width: 0"]<colgroup><col style="width: 100px"><col width="100"></colgroup><tbody>[TR][TD]Wire Resistance[/TD][TD]Ohms[/TD][/TR][TR][TD="align: right"]1[/TD][TD="align: right"]2235[/TD][/TR][TR][TD="align: right"]2[/TD][TD="align: right"]2127[/TD][/TR][TR][TD="align: right"]3[/TD][TD="align: right"]1992[/TD][/TR][TR][TD="align: right"]4[/TD][TD="align: right"]1965[/TD][/TR][TR][TD="align: right"]5[/TD][TD="align: right"]2017[/TD][/TR][TR][TD="align: right"]6[/TD][TD="align: right"]2167[/TD][/TR][TR][TD="align: right"]7[/TD][TD="align: right"]2021[/TD][/TR][TR][TD="align: right"]8[/TD][TD="align: right"]2007[/TD][/TR]</tbody>[/TABLE]
I do want to get a spark tester to ensure that each plug is getting spark, but don't currently have one of those.

Thats where I am at. I am really toying with picking up an SDS at this point. I'm obviously into this car enough to warrant one. I'm also enough of a sick puppy, that I'll probably have more cars to use it on in the future as well.

Let me know if you have any suggestions for things I can check before i drop some coin on an SDS to confirm the MAF is functioning, or if you can point out errors in the logic/testing I did above.

TIA!!

 

[gsxr]

Your caps & rotors looked pretty normal, appears you cleaned them up (which is what I'd have done).

But is that schmutz on the back of the insulators? If so, how old are the insulators? Did you just clean those up as well?

 

[a777fan]

Updated Post 510 with what I accomplished today.

Dave, as far as I can tell the insulators are original. The schmutz on the back would not wipe off, and they were both bone dry.

 

[nocfn]

Replace the insulators...

 

[a777fan]

Also forgot to mention. Cleared codes when I got back to the house. Stalling on its own did not generate any new codes.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[gsxr]

Were any codes present before clearing? If the fault is with ignition or fuel, there would not be any codes. The only way to properly test the MAF is via reading live data with SDS, although swapping with a known-good unit can help too. Or if the problem becomes persistent, disconnect the MAF and see if that helps. Injectors almost never fail, your plug boot resistances are ok, fuel pressure is normal. If the insulators are dry they are far less suspect, but new wouldn't hurt. You should not be smelling fuel out the exhaust... I don't like that.

You are correct, the 3 items which have significant effect on the mixture are O2, MAF, and LH module (to a lesser extent, the EZL as well). What LH module do you have, and is the chip stock? Without a digital scanner you usually need to open up the module to peek at the chip.

 

[Kyiv]

a777fan,

I'm amazed at my own arrogance to contradict GSXR, but, in my opinion your caps looks like utter crap. My 1993 400E, had two caps and rotors replacements in 4.5years/14k miles. Last time I've replaced caps and rotors that had 5k miles/2-2.5 years on them. My car was SoCal back then - so 99% of time dry, low humidity climate. I had to replace them because my car car started to run like utter crap, and I mean utter. It did not die when warmed up, was ok when cold, and then when warmed up - total catastrophe. The shop though it was transmission oil pump at first. Rain seems to bring the issue out BIG time. This is a pic of one of the cap, after it was cleaned which cured problem for one day and then the problem came fully back. I've replaced this and the other cap, along with rotors that looked similar and no issues at all. Again, the cap below is about 2-2.5 years old and 5k miles in a super dry climate of SoCal.

For the record, my insulator caps looked to a certain degree worse than yours, but replacing them did not affect my car's performance. From my humble experience, your rotors look like shit. I could be wrong, but that's from my actual experience

 

[a777fan]

Were any codes present before clearing? If the fault is with ignition or fuel, there would not be any codes. The only way to properly test the MAF is via reading live data with SDS, although swapping with a known-good unit can help too. Or if the problem becomes persistent, disconnect the MAF and see if that helps. Injectors almost never fail, your plug boot resistances are ok, fuel pressure is normal. If the insulators are dry they are far less suspect, but new wouldn't hurt. You should not be smelling fuel out the exhaust... I don't like that.

You are correct, the 3 items which have significant effect on the mixture are O2, MAF, and LH module (to a lesser extent, the EZL as well). What LH module do you have, and is the chip stock? Without a digital scanner you usually need to open up the module to peek at the chip.

Dave,

There were codes in there before I cleared:

LH: 4
EZL: 18
DM: 10

The LH and DM codes are not a surprise since I had the MAF unplugged during my testing (I know, I know... pulling codes WASN'T my first step) The crank position sensor code was a bit odd.. but I can't remember if I had previously attempted to start with the EZL CPS unplugged after my last oil change.

As I mentioned previously, I was able to get the car to stall again after clearing, and nothing new popped up.

I think I am going to go for an SDS. I'll need to start my research on that one.

 

[a777fan]

a777fan,

(snip) For the record, my insulator caps looked to a certain degree worse than yours, but replacing them did not affect my car's performance. From my humble experience, your rotors look like shit. I could be wrong, but that's from my actual experience

haha! Kiev... don't hold back now!

Just to clarify, in your opinion both the Caps AND the Rotors look bad? I agree on the caps, but the rotors are practically brand new OE.

 

[Kyiv]

I always replaced them them in complete set because I'm a noob: caps + rotors. Just to be 100% certain I've tackled the issue. I always read that caps and rotors were run-of-the-mill consumables on M119. So when my car started to run like crap, I was skeptical cap+rotors that have 5k miles on them could be the culprit. You can see that picture of the replaced rotor, it has green crud on copper elements. Might looks worse in the picture, but in real life doesn't look THAT bad. Yet, replacing caps + rotors curred all issues. My car was ok cold, but once warm would run like it has 30 horsepower, was chocking, stuttering, wanted to die. To my amateur eyes, the caps in your pictures look like complete shit. Cleaning them is good for nothing. May or may not work, and only for a short time if it does. Once I put new combo on - zero issues. Right away. I was surprised to some extent. Was skeptical testing the car after new set, but was happily surprised. Been about 800 miles since

I see you're in Seattle. Rainy place. First, far away ring, that there was an issue was rain for me. No apparent issue when dry, but once rained - trouble. Then one day out of nowhere, total collapse

I know it can get frustrated Hold on in there!


I also had one ignition coil go bad, and car was chocking, running on 4 cylinders. It's unlikely that both coils could go bad at the same time in your car. I'd tackle caps first. Don't know the symptoms of a bad mass air flow sensor - replaced that prematurely.

 

[gsxr]

A year or three ago, I think there was some discussion about lifespan of caps & rotors. Over-simplifying, there were some M119's back in the day that would run like crap, get $400 in new caps/rotors (dealer pricing), run great for 6 months, then run like crap again, $400 again, 6 months, repeat. Klink reported that in these cases, replacing the insulators would almost always cure the 6-month blues and the "problem cars" did not return. In these cases, the caps/rotors likely looked great and also were not the root cause of the problem. Separately, Klink has stated the green corrosion is normal and doesn't inhibit the 20Kv (or whatever) high-voltage spark at all. I like to scrape the contacts clean, it makes me feel warm & fuzzy, but likely has zero effect on performance.

Anyway - I've seen some REALLY bad caps / rotors, from cars that were still running & driving. Sample photos attached. Those are my reference for what really bad caps look like! When you start seeing black carbon tracks, that's a bad sign. The green fuzz can be ignored.

 

[Jlaa]

.....Separately, Klink has stated the green corrosion is normal and doesn't inhibit the 20Kv (or whatever) high-voltage spark at all. I like to scrape the contacts clean, it makes me feel warm & fuzzy, but likely has zero effect on performance.

From Mr. Klink himself, from a different thread.

DON'T "clean" them! That corroded/burnt appearance on the surface of the metal electrodes has ABSOLUTELY ZERO meaningful influence on the spark propagation. AND, it looks the same again after a short drive. An ARC propagates across that gap. It's HOT ENOUGH TO CAUSE LOCAL MELTING OF THE METAL and there is a tiny shock wave produced at the same time, which blasts a micro sized pit into the metal. That's why they look that way. Leave your cap and rotor electrodes alone...

Also from this thread, 2phast cleaned his caps and found that it MADE a problem where there previously was none: https://www.500eboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12312

Updated Post 510 with what I accomplished today.

Dave, as far as I can tell the insulators are original. The schmutz on the back would not wipe off, and they were both bone dry.

Although I'm not the GSXR, I thought the OE insulators are supposed to be black???

 

[a777fan]

A year or three ago, I think there was some discussion about lifespan of caps & rotors. Over-simplifying, there were some M119's back in the day that would run like crap, get $400 in new caps/rotors (dealer pricing), run great for 6 months, then run like crap again, $400 again, 6 months, repeat. Klink reported that in these cases, replacing the insulators would almost always cure the 6-month blues and the "problem cars" did not return. In these cases, the caps/rotors likely looked great and also were not the root cause of the problem. Separately, Klink has stated the green corrosion is normal and doesn't inhibit the 20Kv (or whatever) high-voltage spark at all. I like to scrape the contacts clean, it makes me feel warm & fuzzy, but likely has zero effect on performance.

Anyway - I've seen some REALLY bad caps / rotors, from cars that were still running & driving. Sample photos attached. Those are my reference for what really bad caps look like! When you start seeing black carbon tracks, that's a bad sign. The green fuzz can be ignored.

That was my thinking too Dave... although as Kiev pointed out, they do look like sh*t. No idea if they are original or have been replaced many moons ago, but physically they do look quite tired.

 

[a777fan]

From Mr. Klink himself, from a different thread. ... Also from this thread, 2phast cleaned his caps and found that it MADE a problem where there previously was none: https://www.500eboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12312


Although I'm not the GSXR, I thought the OE insulators are supposed to be black???

Jlaa. yes! those Klink comments and Riks observations have led me to not touch any of the contact surfaces.

And your comment about the colors. I too have been curious as I have seen both. Mine are obviously orange, and have an MB star and PN on the interior of the cup. Perhaps they changed vendors at some point? Not sure which color you would receive today if ordered. I guess I might find out!!!

 

[gsxr]

Although I'm not the GSXR, I thought the OE insulators are supposed to be black???

Jon is correct. There are 2 different mfr's, Bosch is orange, Doduco is black. Both were used during production back in the 90's. Only Bosch is available now.

 

[Klink]

Bosch insulator bowls and distributor caps are yellow-orange. Doduco insulator bowls and distributor caps are black. I haven't seen any Doduco caps or insulator bowls delivered via MB dealer parts in a long time, but we still get a lot of Doduco rotors.

 

[a777fan]

Haven’t has a while lot of success finding time to work on the 420, but it IS still acting up.

Have not bought a c3 yet either.

I have, however, stocked up on brakleen.



Ill have to head out to the garage and rotate that out of line can when i get home...

I did run across a post on TFTSNBN that pointed me to this star tec diag info for the 124 that I had not seen before.

http://manual.startekinfo.com/manual/JSP/model124.jsp

It seems to contain a lot of the diagnostic specs for the engine and ignition hardware which I have been trying to identify... so thats a win.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[gerryvz]

You had better get a few more full cases of the Red Brakleen. Washington laws (particularly under Inslee) are becoming more and more like California every day.

That shelf of Red Brakleen within the borders of California, would land you in the slammer with a Class A misdemeanor "damaging the environment" charge. I think that red stuff is also illegal in Oregon.

 

[a777fan]

You had better get a few more full cases of the Red Brakleen. Washington laws (particularly under Inslee) are becoming more and more like California every day.

That shelf of Red Brakleen within the borders of California, would land you in the slammer with a Class A misdemeanor "damaging the environment" charge. I think that red stuff is also illegal in Oregon.

Gerry... i know! As a former CA boy, i felt a twinge of guilt and more than a little excitement when clicking the ‘buy now’ button on the amazons.

This should keep me stocked up for a bit, but we’ll see how much is left after I get the 3.2 VR6 back together.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[gerryvz]

Gerry... i know! As a former CA boy, i felt a twinge of guilt and more than a little excitement when clicking the ‘buy now’ button on the amazons.

This should keep me stocked up for a bit, but we’ll see how much is left after I get the 3.2 VR6 back together.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I often go through 2-3 cans in a single job, LOL !

What I REALLY hate is when you use a can and it dies out and there's still a quarter-can left, but you can't get it out.

 

[nocfn]

You can add air to the can

 

[a777fan]

You can add air to the can

Ooh. Do tell how....

 

[nocfn]

you tube it...

 

[mikeym]

You had better get a few more full cases of the Red Brakleen. Washington laws (particularly under Inslee) are becoming more and more like California every day.

That shelf of Red Brakleen within the borders of California, would land you in the slammer with a Class A misdemeanor "damaging the environment" charge. I think that red stuff is also illegal in Oregon.

Just picked up a case over the weekend.
And the dang prop 65 warning everywhere. Went through every paint at Lowe's and did not find one without the warning. Even plywood sheets have that warning now.
Every part on mboemparts.com has that warning. May be I should stop driving my w124.

 

[nocfn]

Naa, this is all because of Cow Farts!

 

[a777fan]

Ok. I made a reeeeeal rookie mistake this afternoon. I was doing some troubleshooting with the ignition system, and afterward I hooked the coils up to the distributors backwards. IE - left bank coil to right bank distributor and vice versa.

I cranked it, and it wouldn't start.. (big surprise). I continued to crank (without it starting) several times. I gave up, and went inside to study the wiring diagrams, and this is when I realized my mistake!

Did I damage anything by hooking the coils up to the wrong banks and cranking it?

 

[nocfn]

DOH! I don't know but who among us hasn't turned a 10 minute deal into a 3 day HOLY CRAP ordeal. I have more times than I should have.

 

[gerryvz]

I don't think you would have hurt anything! Did you try starting up the car after you discovered the mistake? If so, any issues?

 

[TerryA]

Ok. I made a reeeeeal rookie mistake this afternoon. I was doing some troubleshooting with the ignition system, and afterward I hooked the coils up to the distributors backwards. IE - left bank coil to right bank distributor and vice versa.

I cranked it, and it wouldn't start.. (big surprise). I continued to crank (without it starting) several times. I gave up, and went inside to study the wiring diagrams, and this is when I realized my mistake!

Did I damage anything by hooking the coils up to the wrong banks and cranking it?

I’m not much on electrical so if running the coil charge in the wrong direction does damage I don’t know. I think if the engine didn’t backfire you probably didn’t damage anything.

Did it start when you wired it correctly?

 

[gsxr]

Did I damage anything by hooking the coils up to the wrong banks and cranking it?

Nah, it shouldn't have hurt anything. Swap back and fire up!

 

[a777fan]

DOH! I don't know but who among us hasn't turned a 10 minute deal into a 3 day HOLY CRAP ordeal. I have more times than I should have.

I don't think you would have hurt anything! Did you try starting up the car after you discovered the mistake? If so, any issues?

I’m not much on electrical so if running the coil charge in the wrong direction does damage I don’t know. I think if the engine didn’t backfire you probably didn’t damage anything.

Did it start when you wired it correctly?

Thanks guys.

When it was hooked up incorrectly, the engine would quit cranking (hang) with the key in the ‘Start’ position. Almost like the combustion process was occurring at the wrong point in the crank rotation!! (Go figure). Thats probably the most concerning behavior I observed.

After hooking it up correctly, it fired right up. Took it for a toot around the neighborhood and it seemed to run fine. Did a WOT run and it pulled nice and strong. Those data points make me think its a-ok... all except my ego of course! [emoji23]

EDIT: interestingly enough, I also did notice weird speedo behavior while cranking with the incorrect config. The needle would pop up off the pin while cranking. This leads me to believe there was some unwanted feedback coming through to terminal 15, as this is the only connection between the two circuits that I could see via the ETM!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[nocfn]

Don’t forget the short between the seat and the ignition!

 

[a777fan]

I’ve been watching entirely too many auto diagnostic videos on the youtubes recently. Case in point... i had a “treat yo ‘sef” moment earlier this week and ended up with this:





I can’t wait to capture some M119 primary and secondary ignition waveforms!!!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Hakie]

That looks impressive! [emoji106]

 

[mikeym]

Nice. I am temped to stop by now... not sure if Chinese SDS has that capability.

 

[gsxr]

Nice. I am temped to stop by now... not sure if Chinese SDS has that capability.

it does not. O'scope is serious nerd stuff. Note the kit includes a pocket protector.

Can't wait to see some photos of it in action, Jon! BTW, have a link to the kit details / price / etc?

 

[a777fan]

it does not. O'scope is serious nerd stuff. Note the kit includes a pocket protector.

Can't wait to see some photos of it in action, Jon! BTW, have a link to the kit details / price / etc?

Good eye Dave! I found it funny they included one.

I am quite excited too. I'm too embarrassed to provide a link publicly ('treat yo 'sef' should have been capitalized), but I will PM you with it.

 

[a777fan]

I got a chance to play around with the pico yesterday. I'm starting with the basics of the ignition system, so I grabbed voltage and amperage for the primary side of both coils. Here is a screenshot of the left bank coil (T1/2) doing its thing at idle. The car was behaving for the most part while I captured this data (remained running, only occasional misses), but there is still something off about the combustion process (exhaust smelling of gas)



The coil primary current is in blue, and the voltage is in red. From what I have been able to piece together the current draw from this coil appears good. You can see the current ramping up to a little over 11 amps at its peak before it settles in to just over 10 amps prior to the EZL opening up the circuit. This plot is for the left bank coil (T1/2), but the right bank coil (T1/1) trace appears similar. When I first saw how much current the coil was drawing, I thought something was wrong. Most literature out there discusses coil current draws in the 5-8 amp range. Additionally, the FSM wiring diagram indicates that the coil circuit is provided power from Fuse 6 on circuit 15, which is an 8 amp fuse! The FSM 'intro to EZL ignitions' (15-0020), clearly indicates that both coils are 11A coils, however:



This helps explain the high current draw of the coil, but I still don't understand how it can draw more than 8 amps through Fuse 6. If someone has insight into this, it would be appreciated. Is the statement 'features two separate power output stages' a hint as to how its able to draw this much current without Fuse 6 imploding?

Anyway, back to the waveform. I am still working my way through the analysis of the current and voltage once the EZL opens the circuit, shutting off the current, and spiking the primary circuit voltage. I think it looks OK, but I am a little puzzled at the shape of the current as the EZL opens the circuit. There is some odd spiky behavior as the current comes down that (based on online reference material) I was not expecting to be there. Most literature indicates that the reduction in current when the EZL opens the circuit should be clean and quick, but I don't know what 'quick' means. We're literally in the realm of milliseconds here so... quick kinda looses its meaning.

A closeup of the current waveform as the EZL shuts off the coil:


I think some ringing is expected, but the large spike in current right before 1.493 ms is a little bit shocking IMHO (no pun intended). I am also suspect of the negative current draw that exists following shutdown. I have read in some places that this can be an indication of a secondary ignition system failure (wires/distributor/plug), but I haven't quite nailed that down yet.

Anyway, I thought it would be fun to post these images and my thoughts here for people to mull over. This is the first time I've dug this far into an ignition system, so I really have no clue what I am doing. As such, all suggestions and feedback are welcome!

 

[a777fan]

Here is an interesting article from the pico website about intermittent misfires when hot on a W140 V8 (M119) vehicle. The article provides a good look at bad and good waveforms from our engine type!

Pico W140 V8 Hot Misfire Waveform Analysis

 

[a777fan]

Work has been a bit nuts, so car time has been few and far between. I did get a little break this weekend to attack the cooling system. The drivers side radiator neck had begun to seep. I looked at it a few weekends ago, thinking the clamp just needed a bit of adjustment, but that did not fix the issue. I went and got a new OE radiator, and splurged for a fan clutch as well, since I knew it would be much easier doing that while the radiator was out. I didn’t have a lot of hard evidence there was anything wrong with the existing clutch, but (like a lot of us) temps idling seemed to be on the high end, and I had no previous evidence that it had ever been replaced. I figured 25 years and 137k miles was pretty good for a clutch, even with the exorbitant cost of an OE new one.

Didnt take a whole lot of pictures during the install, but I did grab a few.

Old radiator out

Backside of the condenser all dirty

Fan clutch was original. It took a bit of a beating on the way out, as I did not have the special pulley holder from MB.

I improvised with a small 7mm open ended wrench to loosen the center bolt. Worked pretty well, and didn’t damage the pulley! (Photo taken for illustration once the new clutch was back on.)



The fan itself is a bear to clean. The aluminum is super porous so cleaning doesn’t really do anything. Before:



After:


I cleaned up all the other bits around the condenser etc, and popped in the new radiator, filled and bled the system and pressurized for leaks. Success! Which was great news as the ‘new’ radiator from mercedes had looked as if it had had a hard life(possibly dropped in the box at some point?) Given my limited time availability, I decided to install it anyway, and it looks to be working.

Once i had taken it for a nice quick drive and gotten it up to temp, I came back to the house for a wash, and then put on the summer shoes:




Even got some of the proper lugs for the monos this season, via captruff



I love the 8 holes, but dang! The monos look great!!!

 

[TimL]

83216[/ATTACH]


Even got some of the proper lugs for the monos this season, via captruff

View attachment 83217

I love the 8 holes, but dang! The monos look great!!!

Your car looks very sharp Jon!